Hi, Everyone,
Well, here it is. If you want to post a comment on the blog, just hit the comment button at the end of this posting and follow the directions! Just log on and say something like, "I'm here!" or something like that.
For this week, your job will be to do the assigned readings (listed at the end of this posting), and to formulate three good questions you would like me to address, or would like the class to discuss: some questions growing out of your readings. If you can say what in your reading inspired each question, so much the better.
If you will post your questions at the bottom of this blog posting, and subsequent postings, no later than Sunday, June 17, we will then be able to spend the following week on the blog interacting about the questions. And yes, you may log in and post more than once--and you may log in with your comments about other people's questions too. But of course, please stick to the subject at hand--ALWAYS--and be nice!
Remember--your first priority this week will be do your assigned readings, and of course listen to the Kinzer CD and practice with it. And then, to generate three good questions no later than next Sunday, June 17.
Welcome aboard!
Rabbi Stuart
Assigned Readings
In addition to the following readings, you should do all you can to master the melodies and liturgy on the Kinzer CD’s, working on this regularly, and of course, especially in conjunction with your home shabbat observance
The readings after each date indicate what you should have read in advance of that date. The plan is to read these readings one week, then to post questions about them the blog no later than the Sunday at the beginning of the second week. During that week, we will interact on the blog about what we have been reading in preparation for the class to follow.
In advance of Shabbat June 23 –
SOS [Settings of Silver] Chapter 1-2 (What is a Jew? Torah); Wolfson - Chapter 1-2; Donin - Chapter 5.
Any questions . . . call or e-mail me.
Shalom!
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62 comments:
I just wanted to be the first person to log on. Hehehehe. It certainly helped to find this site by not typing in a double-h. The following are NOT my three official questions:
What is your name?
What is your quest?
What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
I'm very excited that this is all up and running! I'll be back in a couple days with my actual questions.
Grace Ruth
Any woman who can quote "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" by memory is in a special category! My daughter knows scads of that script and can quote it day or night with the proper accent!
Okay, here goes, for better or for worse....
Question numero uno:
A lot of times between between shabbat shacharis and class we get hungry (especially if we just had juice before and the oneg was light), or often we just want to hang and and socialize longer because we are a community and enjoy each others company. What can we do on shabbat for fellowship (and food) besides go to Islands which doesn't involve carrying money, business transactions, and asking others to work for us?
My second question if from Settings of Silver. Now, first I have to say, this is my least favorite book. Wylen constantly irritates me with his mild inaccuracies and arguable statements, such as David ruling the Kingdom of Judah. Now that I'm done kvetching about the book, here is my question. On p. 29 he discusses Torah as salvation. If observance of Torah is salvation, what chance of salvation is there for those who have not received the Torah? How does this square with what other rabbis have said who say that those who are not Jewish need only observe the Noahide commandments? As believers in Yeshua, what is our response? Assuming Torah is salvation, can this be reversed, is salvation Torah?
I saved the best for last. Frage drei:
This question, like the first, comes from an interaction with more than one reading as well as the conversation we began last week. Donin discusses how modern gentile society is finally waking up to the well-being that setting aside a day of rest can bring, rather than seeing it as laziness. Christians have mimicked taking one day of seven as a holy day for worship. Yet scripture clearly says that God quite specifically has given the Sabbath to Israel and not to the nations. In fact, the Talmud goes farther to say that "A gentile observing the Sabbath deserves death" (Sanh. 58b) I'm sure that others will have their own comments, but I can say that for me personally, Shabbat has been a matter of great internal conflict. To say I am drawn to it is an understatement. When I observe Shabbat, my heart is filled with Joy. When I set it aside, I feel the loss. But I also can't shake the sense that I'm somehow stealing what is not mine to have. Where is the line? Like most secular folks, rest but don't make it religious? Or like most christians, make it religious, but don't rest? Do whatever you want but don't light candles? The thing is, for me at least, one thing leads to another. It drives me nuts.
This is awesome ( I need a new word ) I am so glad to be a part of this class, Thank You.
Grace...What do you mean; and African or European Swallow?
ok, I digress (often and much)
Let me say that I am going to try not to overflow from my mind to the computer the overwhelming amount of questions I am filled with as I am brimming up with so many I could plotz, and even in trying to limit myself to two, I will try to make them brief as possible by summing up the questions (Good Luck Tyler), and I might ask for more than one answer, by folding two questions into one inquiry.
In both books there is some brief overview of “what is a Jew” as far as much as it is too complex of an answer to categorize as a faith or religion, a nation, a race, a culture...etc. It almost gives a feeling of yes, they are all AND not all of those things at once (which; both are true and both are false is an answer I am actually usually content with in life, I don’t scare from paradoxes too easily) My question then becomes in the area of blood (DNA to be modern) Even in the orthodox or conservative rational, if your mother is Jewish, then you are Jewish. And if the Torah states that these commandments are given to the seeds of Abraham, it appears there is a thought that a person whose bloodline can be connected to Abraham is commanded under the law to keep certain ordinances. I will give a specific case to ask my question:
A couple comes to this country AFTER being converted from Judaism to Catholicism the woman then has a daughter and raises her to be Catholic, that daughter then has a daughter who is raised catholic, then that daughter has a son…by DNA it could be said that the son is a descendant of Abraham, but other than the Latkes that they ate on Saturday and the Manischewitz wine in the refrigerator, the spatterings of Yiddish that the boy did not know was not just more odd Ukrainian or Polish words being thrown around the house combined with the great-grandmother’s odd very “un-Catholic” answers to his questions about G-d , the boy grows up a Ham eating (even BLOOD sausage eating) inquisitive agnostic, COMPLETELY gentile in his upbringing. (Yeah, ok, is it THAT apparent that I did not just make up this scenario but is only slightly modified to protect the innocent?)
Now my question 1:
In the eyes of the common Jewish community, should he be bound to the law, but just does not know it or is he now a Gentile through and through? Also, the inverse please, to say, a gentile woman converts, now her son is then Jewish and bound to the law? What is the messianic communities view?
My second question then comes after a long bit of reasoning and other questions, that I am hoping will come about in discussion, and my want to keep this brief as I can, I will let you bridge the gap:
Both books (as well as our discussions) bring up Halakha quite a bit. In a messianic community how much credence do we (and I do not mean to assume I should be honored as to be given any right to be accepted in the community, but say we in a literary sense) give the Halakha in our daily lives and understanding of how to serve Hashem? If Yeshua is our High Priest and it seems to me (and I can be wrong, I am just learning) that his very explanation of the Torah, umm….actually the entire Tanach was done partially to correct the misconceptions that man had made of the law (not to change the law), that Yeshua is our great Rabbi and his teachings IS our Halakha. The very questions that people gave to Yeshua seem to be the very questions that many bring up in a Jewish community to be answered by Jewish authorities, to be answered through the oral Torah. How then do we reconcile now, to look towards a Jewish community’s answers that do not recognize Yeshua as the living Torah and in that, the Messiah?
(that is a short as I can make it…I am working on it)
I will be back to check answers and to give my input to others...
Hey Tyler, can you follow directions?
No.
OK, why I read the entire page of this post, and SOMEHOW thought I read TWO questions, I am not certain. I will be back on with another question in a bit...please stand by.
Hey Tyler! Second week we are supposed to interact with each other, so I'm going to reply to you as best I can.
Regarding your ancestry question. Yes, Israel is a people. But it takes more than a speck of DNA. For example, My mother's mother's mother's mother was Jewish. Does that make me a Jew? NO. The Orthodox will say to me that my interest in Judaism is because of my Jewish ancestry, that it is drawing me to return. But it would still require a conversion.
In particular, there is a question of "dat," or community. Let's say I move to Israel. What dat am I a part of? Christian, Muslim, or Jew? It would not matter if a person is of Jewish decent if they have switched to a Christian dat. Indeed there were holocaust survivors who were denied right of return because they had become members of the Christian community.
I liked your question about halakha. I liked it because Rabbi Stuart told that story about Rashi's grandson Rashi, and how he questioned the interpretation of the Shema and the Tefillin, and yet still wrote instsructions on how to properly make Tefillin. The point was that while he questioned halakha, he never broke with halakha, because to break with halakha is to break with community.
The point of Messianic Judaism is to be a Judaism. To break with halakha to cease to be a Judaism, in my never to be humble opinion.
The question of how far? Meaning, who's interpretation of halakha, orthodox or conservative or reform etc? As Stuart has said many times, UMJC is attached to Conservative interpretation, and UMJC is our community. However, I might question how loyal UMJC's commitment is to Conservative interpetation -- are we going to allow ordination of actively homosexual rabbis for example?
There is another question, and that is dealing with the reality of the observance of those in our synagogue. Let's say we set the standard at the conservative middle. Do those who do not meet that standard still feel just as welcome? How can we make them feel very welcome, but still call them to a higher level of observance? And what about those who are living to orthodox standards; do they feel comfortable? Do they feel stressed by the compromises always in front of them? Or saddened by what they see?
And what about the things in our synagogue that, I'm sorry, but don't meet with Conservative halakha either? What can be done when very dear precious people are bending over backwards to help, but helping in a non-halakhic manner? I for one do not want to hurt their feelings.
Here is another consideration, this time regarding the larger Jewish community. Our synagogue is right smack in the middle of Orthodox territory. We ARE seen. What consideration do we give that, or should we give that?
Ummmm... I don't think I answered your question. I think I just asked a bunch more. Oy vey, what a headache.
Hi everyone!
I may be the first person to log on who has never seen "Monty Python and the Holy Grail". So, to answer Grace's unofficial questions - my name is Debbie, my quest is to learn Torah, and about that third question that sounds like it involves math which is not my strong suit (but see below).
My real questions/ comments are the following:
(1) Wolfson talks about the Shabbat Seder as being an important time for families to bond. I think it will be great for us as a class to "make Shabbat" in August. I hope we do do this regularly from then on. I would really like to see not just us but the whole AZS community having Shabbat meals together at least once a month. Can we make this happen?
I am also concerned about the issue Grace raises about eating before or after class without having to handle money or be in an atmosphere where everyone else is not observing Shabbat. I am more willing to compromise than she is - especially for a cup of coffee!!
But I don't think that is for the best and want to find alternatives.
(2) Donin quotes (p. 64) Herman Wouk as saying "The Sabbath is the usual breaking off point from tradition, and also the point at which any Jews rejoin Judaism".
Reading this I was wondering if the best way to reach nonobservant friends and family would not be to invite them for Shabbat dinner rather than initially invite them to attend services.
(3) I struggle with what is prohibited on Shabbat. I feel that I want to observe Shabbat in an Orthodox way but I also want to turn lights on & off, use hot water, and go out for coffee.
I have stopped watching TV or listening to the radio on Friday nights and really enjoy the peace and quiet. Before I give up something it seems like this huge burden that I have to give it up, only afterwards do I begin to wonder why it seemed like such a big deal.
I know that not doing ordinary actions on Shabbat causes you to be ever mindful of the fact that it is Shabbat but there certainly is a steep learning curve when you didn't grow up this way. I always want an explanation for everything rather than just doing it because that is the tradition.
In the past (before March 2006) I used to say it was silly to not do this or that. For example, I wanted to know why you can't tie a knot(permanently) on Shabbat. That seemed silly. Then in March of 2006 I read this article by Margaret Wertheim on the opinion page of the Los Angeles Times (March 6, 2006) about the mathematics of knot theory and DNA.
Apparently when Hashem created us, he used knots in our DNA sequences! So all of a sudden the ancient rabbis who came up with the prohibition against tying knots didn't seem so silly.
One of Rabbi Dauermann's sermons where he talked about Hashem and light helped me decide it would be good to not turn lights on and off. However, as of today, I still do. I would like to hear what everyone else has to say about keeping Shabbat and your struggles and resolutions on these matters.
Marte
Wow! I almost feel like a grasshopper amongst the giant but then I remember I am Hashem's and am learning how to be a daughter of the covenant and smile, feeling the wonder of being loved, of having mentors who alongside of Joshua and Caleb make us sit up straighter and taller and know we can 'inherit the land'. "Exodus" and "The Messiah"
are my favorite songs.
I was almost intimidated by the educational achievements of y'all but alongside of the lists were the delightful ones of well liked movies and other tidbits. And so with a wink of the eye and a smile to the lips and heart, I relaxed.
Some of my fav movies are "Enchanted April", "Freedom Writers"; "Carnauba"; "Shirley Temple"; anything about Horses; song & dance stuff "Dreamgirls","Die Hard Series", etc.and of course, "What about Bob?"; & "Frisco Kids".
We just are in class together for the 2 yr time period of becoming Bar and Bat Mitzvahs. To learn, to discuss, to gnaw mens written words to see if it matches Torah and G-d. I began reading in the car outloud for Stu and I while he was driving to work this week, one of the books, The Shabbat. As I navigated my way thru the extremely long introduction, I felt 'dismayed'. Someone who does not even come from a Jewish longstanding Torah observant family is gonna be telling us how to keep Shabbat? And he is the head of the dept at UJ?
First Question: Why?
Answer to 1st Question: who else is better qualified to teach MJ's than someone who is on the outskirts of Judaism. IF his words are accepted within Jewish circles than there is hope for us as MJ's to make our contributions. He is in the midst of assimilating and loudly pronouncing he is Jewish yet the only thing that appears to be Jewish is the Erev Shabbat meal as a family gathering, and the keeping of a few Holy Days.? Like watching a black and white movie in the darkened theatre with the organ music playing, dum,de,dum while chills go up and down your spine and the villain steps out,twirling his moustache; I want to yell outloud, "Stop, the enemy is behind you". "Don't let him steal your heritage and G-d's Words from your heart"!
No wonder the Rabbis start young children out on the Law..it is black and white, no shades of gray! Teach their little hearts right and wrong from the start, to let them know what is expected by Abba Father! To know the moral reason why comes after obedience!
As traffic got hectic on the 57 I stopped reading outloud. I have to read the other chapters and books for the next questions.
I promised my Stu I would keep it short!
My comments re: The Shabbat book author is part reflection of mine of a Jewish friend who does not want to discuss Torah "he's just not religious", father was a Holocaust survivor, etc. Coming from a different point and the assimilated family, I can see where this friend and this author share a similiar Shabbat as a family getting together time, to remind themselves they are Jewish and yet our friends have distanced themselves from Hashem's Word, Torah study and synagogue going. I am saddened for them and know the blessings Stu and I have had in honoring and learning about Erev Shabbat, Shabbat and being gathered back.
My comments may have come across harsh and judgemental and I was partly thinking of our friend and then to read in the intro this family's take on it, it just is sad. One day I will realize that not every person who calls themselves a Jew or a believer is excited about Hashem or His Word!
At least it helps prepare my heart for learning how to pray for those Hashem has allowed to touch my life!
Marte is my name, doing my homework is my quest, and I do not have any swallows to test but I have heard bird songs in my backyard! Looking forward to this upcoming Shabbat and class.
Mork calling Orsen, come in Orsen... oh there you are...
My name is Grace Ruth Harris, Family Abernethy, Clan Leslie
My quest is to love HaShem with all my heart, all my soul, and all my strength, and to obey His precepts
And I never answer silly math questions about swallows when I'd rather be out playing Quidditch
Marte, you sweetheart, what makes you think because you are quieter and write less that you say less? I can so relate to what you are saying of wishing more for others that have less, but they don't always want more. How can I encourage them without insulting them? I make so many mistakes, and then feel awful.
There is one woman I still think about, who came to a prayer seminar I gave when I was on the steering committee of the Catholic-Jewish Women's Conference. We had broken up into small groups and were supposed to be sharing about individual prayer experiences, and it turned out this one woman never prayed because she was an atheist! Here she was looking at me for a response, and I was praying desperately, Lord, for some reason this beautiful atheist Jewish woman has come to this seminar on prayer. What am I to say to her? And I looked her square in the eyes and said, "I am so in awe that you are willing to live your life as though God exists, even though you believe he doesn't, because I'll tell you, the one thing I can't stand is those people who believe in God but live their lives as though he didn't exist." To this day I wonder if that was the right thing to say, and where she is, and what she is doing.
Hey Deb! We are so often on the same page. When it comes to Shabbat, as I was saying to Marte earlier this week, whatever I do, whatever I give up, "she" gives back two-fold to me in joy and peace. On Shabbat, in so many small little ways, I remember that I am creation, and He is Creator. It's a shame I live in Pasadena. I'd really like to walk. I agree with you -- things only seem hard to give up BEFORE I give them up; afterwards I wonder what the big deal was. Unlike you, I went for the gestalt. I spent Shabbat with an Orthodox family in New York, and it was like magic. If something isn't broke, why fix it? So I never needed a "good enough reason" not to flip the light switches. My reason was simply, it worked.
Deb, I also reflected on the point about Shabbat being the point of connection. For example, my brother has a Jewish friend who was raised Ba'hai, and then became a Christian via J4J. When his wife left him and the kids, he totally fell apart and now isn't going to church. I thought of going over to my brother's house to talk to him, but then after reading our book I thought, hey, maybe I should invite him over for Shabbat. You can pray about that!
Signing off... Na nu! Na nu!
Hello All. Well better late then never I guess. First of all I would like to address the comment by Grace in her thoughts about Sanhedre(i)n 58b. About the Gentiles being put to death if they observe shabbat. The chapter 58b deals with heathens not directly with gentiles, and in fact the actual translation is.
"A heathen who keeps a day of rest, deserves death, for it is written, And a day and a night they shall not rest."
the actual chapter 58b deals directly with heathens, Sentence 38 goes on to say that even if he/she rests on Monday they will be put to death. There is no prohibition about Gentiles resting on the Sabbath. In direct contrast to your comment if you read the Babylonian Talmud comments you will see the following.
""Eisenstein, J. E., V. p. 623. suggests that this may have been directed against the Christian Jews, who disregarded the Mosaic law yet observed the Sabbath, and quotes Maimonides who advances the following reason: 'The principle is, one is not permitted to make innovations in religion or to create new commandments. He has the privilege to become a true proselyte by accepting the whole law.' (Yad. Melakim, X, 9.) He also points out that 'Deserves death' expresses strong indignation, and is not to be taken literally; [cf. the recurring phrase. 'He who transgresses the words of the Sages deserves death.' Ber. 6b.]Eisenstein, J. E., V. p. 623. suggests that this may have been directed against the Christian Jews, who disregarded the Mosaic law yet observed the Sabbath, and quotes Maimonides who advances the following reason: 'The principle is, one is not permitted to make innovations in religion or to create new commandments. He has the privilege to become a true proselyte by accepting the whole law.' (Yad. Melakim, X, 9.) He also points out that 'Deserves death' expresses strong indignation, and is not to be taken literally; [cf. the recurring phrase. 'He who transgresses the words of the Sages deserves death.' Ber. 6b.]""
In fact we are commanded to not only rest on the Sabbath but also to have our slave servants, and all animals rest on the Sabbath. As you pointed out in your first comments about having people wait on us for food. The Gentiles are not commanded to rest on the Sabbath but they are invited to do so if they wish.
Stu
Oh yeah I forgot...
mhy name is Jose Eminiz... no that is not right.. my name is Stuart Simpson
My quest is to memorize the complete Talmud.
the speed through the air of an adult unladen swallow in the spring is 36.5 MPH
36.5? Show off.
grumble grumble mumble
You're POSITIVE it's not 35.51, or 34.49?
Debbie: you are so precious! You write just as you are...what a jewel you are!
In reading the first chapter last evening on SOS, I was impressed with how diverse the Jewish people are,no new questions [ I promise to not answer my own in future ] have risen yet. Will continue on quest.
I am so tickled that we now know the speed of that dear swallow!
Grace: & Dr. Rabbi SD: you do have quite the sense of humor... I knew we were in the right place, eggheads with a few Humpty Dumpty cracks [to let the light in!!! ha ha] This is certainly not going to be dull.
To Debbie: Can you bring a copy of the DNA article from LA Times 2006 to class? I have just watched an interesting segment on DNA on TV the other night, so it may fit into the spaces left unanswered.
One of the antiques I tried to find when we were in Europe was a large lamp that is lit on Friday evening and actually burns all Shabbat. Saw pix in Museum but could not find one anywhere. We have some lights that are left on and not turned off. We are working on the best way to spend our Erev Shabbat evening. This is such a good thing to discuss with each other. This must be the "iron sharpening iron" Scripture invokes us to be with one another.
Well Grace, the speed is in direct proportion to several areas of aerodynamics. First you must consider the density of the air, in spring it is more dense, which will give better lift and more efficiency then say in the summer with less dense air. The calculations are based on a "standard day" which is 72Degrees F. with a barometric reading of 29.94 inches of mercury.
Also am I the only one who is seeing this form in Spanish?? No I am not kidding...
Sorry for the typo, the pressure for a standard day is 29.92 inches of mercury,, also this measurement is at sea level.. no more about this....I promise
some thoughts on SOS... I feel that Mr. Wylen who may have some knowledge is, in my opinion, in no way a scholar, . His comments that there isn't any "BLOOD" or "GENE" connection between the people of the Jewish race simply is not correct. I clipped only one very small indicator of this below..
"Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."
(M.F. Hammer, Proc. Nat'l Academy of Science, May 9, 2000)""
Aside from that small issue,, (not so small),
He speaks (p13) that "Biblical Judaism belongs to the distant past and modern Judaism to the uncertain present and future." What he fails to do with any clarity is to create a believable description of what is Modern Judaism. In a reading of his text, my only conclusion is that his opinion is simply do as you feel as long as it does not go against the Torah too much.
Again on pp19, he states that "modern" Jews, whoever they are. can totally believe Darwin and the Biblical account of Creation without any fear of conflict. Has this man ever opened and read the Torah?
He did however, make one good point about 70 possible interpretations of each word, sentence, paragraph. This I totally believe and in that area he makes, in my opinion, a correct statement.
More to follow, I need to take a cold shower, this guy got me so upset.
The Mitzvah Store over on Pico sells a kosher lamp that can be turned on and off on Shabbat. It has been on the market for about a year and a half.
After I move to another place, I will get one. Right now, I am living in someone else's house and have to turn the porch light out when I come home from Friday night services.
Also, I have environmental concerns and prefer not to leave lights on for 25 hours. I guess some timers and a couple of those kosher lamps would work great. I am still thinking about it.
Hi Debbie
You do know that the Kosher lamp is on all the time all you do is close the cover to hide the light, but the light is actally on the whole time you are using it, so the feeling about not having it on for 25 hours is still the same thing... Thought you should know
Stuart S: THANKS! I forgot.
Grace, you mentioned going for the gestalt in experiencing Shabbat with an Orthodox family so I couldn't resist repeating the following famous story about the Chofetz Chaim.
As the story goes, this young yeshiva scholar was caught smoking on Shabbos. The Chofetz Chaim asked to speak with him privately. When the young man entered the room, the Chofetz Chaim is said to have clasped the young man's hands in his own and uttered one word,"Shabbos". This gentle rebuke immediately caused the young man to give up smoking on Shabbos.
I feel like I am the only one who is not really annoyed by Settings of Silver. I guess just because I see Wylen as overgeneralizing just about everything.
Hello Stu. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to discuss Talmud.
First, thank you for quoting the Eisenstein footnote, as that of course is helpful to the conversation. Before we discuss your quote, lets just look at what is stated. Anyone who wants to Google it for themselves, we are in the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedron Tractate, at the end of 58b.
"Resh Lakish also said: A heathen who keeps a day of rest, deserves death, for it is written, And a day and a night they shall not rest, and a master has said: Their prohibition is their death sentence. Rabina said: Even if he rested on a Monday. "
The "it is written" refers to Bereishit/Gen 8:22, "From now, all the days of the world, sowing and harvesting, cold and heat, summer and winter; Day and night they shall not rest ". They, meaning all mankind. Resh Lakish is arguing that only Jews got a break from being part of "they" when God gave them the Sabbath.
There are many questions. First, in most of the translations I have, it says that day and night will never cease, and I just don't know hebrew to know what's going on. Next, assuming "they" is there in the text or reasonably implied, is this verse in Genesis merely descriptive? Or is it some sort of decree? It does appear to be a decree, when read in context. But even if "they" is in the text, I think it refers to day and night. I think our friend Resh Lakish is making the most horrible of arguments.
And I agree with you, Stu, that he is likely speaking more figuratively when he says "deserves death." Note that he doesn't say go kill them.
But however bad his argument is, he is still right. God gave shabbat to Israel and not to the nations. How can you get away from that? If you say, here nations! Go ahead and have shabbat! Aren't you taking something special that is between God and Israel and giving it away? Wasn't it Donin, I think, that said it's kind of like a wedding ring? Would you want your wife to share her wedding ring with someone else?
Let's talk a bit about how the Jewish community applies this passage from the Talmud today. Most, I'm sure, don't care that much, although they certainly would think that the more Jewish a gentile's observance of shabbat it, the nuttier they are. Most, but certainly not all, especially among the Orthodox. If its there in the Oral Law, its there, and that is what they teach to those who come and ask. Those gentiles who go to them who do not wish to convert are directed to B'nei Noach, and among other things are instructed NOT to observe Shabbat. A gentile seeking conversion is allowed to observe shabbat, but must do something deliberately to break it, such as light a match or flip a light switch.
Let's now discuss your response to my statement that I did not wish to ask another to do anything that would cause them to violate shabbat. You argued that it was a concession that they also should be resting. But for me, it is an extension of what I do, because they will do it only because I ask, or because I pay them to.
Beit Hillel and Beit Shammai argued over this very point. In fact, because I seem to be lining up with Beit Shammai, which I really deplore in general, it's making me look a second time at my position, LOL. The Talmud comes down in favor of Hillel in general. You may win on this point. I'd like to here Rabbi Stuart chime in on this. I'm a stubborn Lass.
It still doesn't change diddly-squat about conducting business on shabbat.
Now, I've saved your footnote for last. :) It stated that the passage was meant to apply to Jewish Christians who were observing Shabbat but not other mitzvot. Did it perhaps cause you as it did me to reflect upon the strength of the animosity of the Jewish community even today regarding Messianics who talk the talk but don't walk the walk?
This is my last message. I got two shabbat meals to cook this week. Mary mode off; Martha on. I gotta get a move on, I I okely-dokely-schmokely do! (Bet you didn't know Martha talked like Flanders, didja?)
Adios mis amigos!
Hi Debby,I agree with you about Wylan, he bothers me a lot, as I indicated in one of my posts, but I actually like someone who makes me upset, because I forces me to read his works in depth. Not sure if that is good or bad but it does make me do research which is good.
Stuart No the other one.
Friends,
My first response. I know it’s late in the week, but I was hoping for more of our members to sign in, and I got up to my ears in research besides.
I will give more of my input later today and/or tomorrow at the class. But here is some of my feedback for starters.
Grace asked about food arrangements for Shabbat. I am ahead of you here. We own two or three crock pots bought especially for this purpose--to make food prepared before shabbat but available on shabbat that we will not go out and buy food, violating the day. In this and many other ways we have the opportunity to set an example for the rest of the congregation, and, I expect, some others may catch the shabbat bug from us. So, in addition to organizting ourselves to have a complete shabbat together once a month (for starters!) involving a Friday night service and meal, a day of worship and study complete with foods pre-prepared and not purchased that day, a day ending with Havdalah, we will be organizing ourselves on how to prepare those crock pots and how to pre-pay for the food.
Traditionally, the food prepared is called cholent, a special dense and nutritious shabbat stew (no jokes please!). My niece has a dynamite recipe and we will get it from her.
All of this ties in as well with Debbie’s excellent questions and comments regarding how we might influence the rest of the synagogue, and how we might manage food concerns on shabbat. So let’s DO IT!
Meanwhile, we have a little organizing to do--followed by lots of shabbat joy.
As for Grace’s questions from Wylen exploring the implications of his defining Torah as salvation Torah as salvation, that “in Jewish belief it is Torah that brings salvation from sin,” I am afraid he is working here with a meat-axe rather than a scalpel. We need to bear in mind his intention here--to separate and delineate Judaism in contradistinction to Christianity. In order to do so, he makes an overly broad over-statement. And he would agree that God has provided for the other nations of the world, expecting of them only adherence to “the seven commandments of Noah.” However, here, he is not being nuanced, but rather polemical. In general, Wylen’s intended audience appears to be people who know nothing about Judaism (but should), for whom he is painting a comprehensive picture in broad strokes. A good place to start, but not the end of the story.
As for Grace’s third question concerning Gentiles keeping shabbat--I think the Jewish opposition to this categorically is well-founded and communally understandable. However, it is one thing for Gentiles to take upon themselves the prerogatives of observing shabbat, and another things for Gentiles to join with Jews in doing so. In the first case, the perceived insult from the Jewish viewpoint is when Gentiles cross-dress in the garments of Jewish piety, claiming an identity not their own. In the second case, Gentiles are joining with the Jewish community, willing to be submissive to communal norms and to be instructed in communal boundaries. Such Gentiles are showing respect for the Jewish people’s inheritance and wish to touch it, feel it, taste it, while in the former case, people arrogate that inheritance for themselves out of a sense of entitlement.
Much more to discuss and work out on these matters.
On Jewish identity, as per Anthony. I believe he is right that a person descended from Abraham, and in the male case, ritually circumcised, is obliged to keep Torah. And the assumption is always that one keeps Torah in the context of community, since this cannot be done in isolation from other Jews. Of course the question of “who is a Jew” is a big one. The short answer in our context, as promulgated by the Messianic Jewish Rabbinical Council is this:
“Following the consensus of Jewish tradition, we recognize as a Jew anyone who is born of a Jewish mother or who is a convert to Judaism.
We also accept the Reform decision, which acknowledges patrilineal descent under certain conditions. In our definition, the necessary and sufficient condition consists of that individual identifying as a Jew.”
Of course there are more complicated cases, as the one Anthony presents. The kind of person he is speaking of is a person of Jewish descent, but not a Jew. He is not “Gentile through and through” but a person of somewhat ambiguous status. He would need to clear up the ambiguity concerning his identity through communally sanctioned ritual circumcision or tippat ha-hadam (ritualized drawing of a drop of blood from the male member), and the unambiguous choosing of God, Israel and Torah.
Anthony’s second question concerns halakha, and is a big issue. The short answer is this: Yeshua’s differing with the leaders of his day was well within the boundaries of Jewish discussion--the Talmud is a huge compendium of religious Jews differing with each other on every conceivable halakhic issue. He was not discarding halakhic norms, but highlighting certain governing principles and considerations. In addition, in Matthew 23:3 he clearly indicates that the Pharisees (rabbinical establishment) have the authority to interpret Torah halakhically, and that this authority should be honored, while avoiding following their example when it is bad. In a sense, and I have never seen this before today, he was saying “Follow their halakha but not their aggadah.”
Torah was given not to us as individual Jews but the Jewish people as whole. If we are to honor God as part of Israel, and not as a new Israel, and if we are to assist our people in honoring God through Torah obedience, and if we are to bring to the table the perspective of the Apostolic Witness (New Testament), then we can only do so in respectful interaction with that community which has, for three millennia, taken Torah seriously. Anything else is sectarian, schismatic, and an implied protest against Israel’s standing and tradition. And as Grace added, “The point of Messianic Judaism is to be a Judaism. To break with halakha to cease to be a Judaism, in my never to be humble opinion.”
Grace raises the question, “How far?” concerning whether keeping a high standard of halakha might alienate others or make them feel unwelcome. That depends on how we do it. Anytime you seek to lay your trip on others, you will create relational disasters. The trick is to quietly model one’s own commitments, not to make a point, but simply as a manifestation of those commitments. This takes self-control for any of us who are too given to correcting others. This is a big no-no and will get us nowhere good.
We need to take a hint from Chabad. They adhere to a very high standard of halachic observance, but studiously avoid making people feel inadequate who “are not there yet.” I often use the example of my niece--not raised observant in any sense, but who attends Chabad just about every week in her home area. The rabbi has never once made her feel second-rate due to her still low level of observance, in which she is growing! She makes challah for every Friday night, lights the candles, brings her kids to shul, and yes, drives on shabbat and keeps appointments. She is in process and that is GOOD. All of us in this class are in process and that is good. And it will only be good if we make our level of observance to be attractive, winsome, and non-intrusive. Let others join with us to the extent that they can. We must never make people feel bad in an attempt to get them to do something good.
As for whose version of halakha we adhere to, that is a communal matter. Your rabbi, and thus, our congregation, is in solidarity with the Messianic Jewish Rabbinical Council, which continues to work diligently and respectfully on manageable and appropriate standards for our observance. This is the standard to which we will seek to adhere, which I will teach, and for which eventually all of us should agree to hold one another accountable. It is as we communally observe halakha that we bring glory to God--and only in that way. Otherwise, it is simply every person doing what is right in her own eyes: never a commended option.
As for being seen in the midst of our Orthodox community, believe me, to any degree that we genuinely honor Jewish norms, we will create interest and perhaps gain some respect. But that is not why we do what we do.
More on shabbat. If we are to do the Friday night meal, etc., it is imperative that we NOT involve Andy Margolis or add to her work load. She is maxed out, and we will have to find ways to do it without bothering her. And as for Debbie’s comment “I was wondering if the best way to reach nonobservant friends and family would not be to invite them for Shabbat dinner rather than initially invite them to attend services,” the answer is most probably yes indeed. About twenty years ago I developed the idea that this would be the very best kind of MJ evangelism: inviting people to shabbat meals, where, routinely, Torah is discussed from a MJ viewpoint. This would be most compelling.
And as for Debbie’s question as to what to do and what not to do, we are going to be discussing this within the guidelines provided my the MJRC (Messianic Jewish Rabbinical Council), and doing it in class.
Marte raises the question about Jewish friends who don’t want to discuss Hashem or the Bible. Can we have any helpful interaction with them? Of course! The way we do it is by teaching with our lives. Inviting them for a relaxed and appropriate shabbat meal, without seeking to explain or indoctrinate. I have long taught a principle which holds true in such cases. It is called “The Cultural Closure Principle,” and it states:
Even assimilated, secularized Jews experience a sense of having "come home" when participating meaningfully in normative Jewish behaviors. We can give them that kind of experience, in small doses, without the need to hit them over the head.
Just wanted to say Shabbat Shalom.
Participating in the discussion here this week made my week a bit more hectic but was the bright spot in my days. Thanks. Let's enjoy tomorrow!
NOW ITS 30
hi stuart
Marsha is now on the blog. Hi Rabbi this is Marsha. I want to enter my three questions.
Do Jewish people believe in salvation of any kind?
What books constitute the Talmud?
Is there a great difference between the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud?
How about is it forbidden for women to do dishes on Shabbat?
Can you send over the mp3's for the CD?
Thanks for setting this up!
jc
Rabbi
I did all the reading for June 23, June 30, and part of July 14. One thing that stays in my mind is the emphasis on Halakha.
They say it is Jewish idenity, It covers eating habits, sex life, business ethics, social activies,
entertainment values, artistic
values, and the spiritual guidelines of Judaism. I don't see any Halakhapracticed anywhere.
Yesterday (Saturday) someone went
through my wallet. This happened either aft the sysagogue, on the bus or at Starbucks. That person stole all my shopping receipts my
credit card receipts and my eyeglass perscription. Then we had that lady who kept breaking into our house, then Richars's sister says she doesn't feel comfortable seeing him with the Rabbi there. If you don't have street smarts yoou can't survive in our neighborhood. Ad I said I am disappointed. This message
is from Marsha Hoffman Thank You.
Shalom
I've just finished reading chapter one in "To Be A Jew". On pg. 25 para. 3 it says that the Oral Torah was received by Moses at Sinai. Are we to believe this? Is there any confirmation of this in the Torah SheBiktav? Comments, please, my fellow searchers of
truth.
Testing, testing 1, 2, 3, 4... Did the picture show up? I hope I did this right.
Was Noel Rabinowitz fantabulous or what?
Kathleen, To Be a Jew is written by an Orthodox Rabbi. He is outstanding for learning Halakhah. But he is going to believe stuff like that. He believes that Moshe wrote the entire five books of Torah, even though it includes an account of his own death; he believes in a literal six day creation; etc.
There was once a fabulous famous rabbi with many disciples. He had one idiosyncrasy -- he would go and study with the apikorsim: learned rabbis and scholars who had apostatized, and who were the pariahs of the Jewish community. One day a disciple came to him, clearly disgusted with this habit, and said, "Rebbe, why do you go and study Torah with those Apikorsim? What do such possibly have to offer?" And he replied, "It's like eating an orange. You suck out the good juice, and then spit out the pits."
Marsha, people who observe halakhah are all around you, but don't generally beat a tambourine to call attention to it. I'm so, SO sorry for what you have gone through! It sounds so disheartening. It never rains but it pours, eh? I think if the person who took you money also took receipts and your prescription, which they can't possibly use, they have psychiatric problems. As for the prejudiced sister, there will always be bigoted people, and sometimes they are in the family. We can't let them influence us. My own standard broken record response is "I'm sorry it makes you uncomfortable. Sometimes we have to be uncomfortable for the sake of family/friendship. Like, I'm uncomfortable when you say rude bigoted things, but you are still family/a friend." He he he.
I was reminded today that we never know who we are talking to. I've been conversing lately with an Eastern Rite Christian who was raised in an anti-semitic home, and whose pastor is very successionist. From the things he was saying, I thought, I'm never gonna make a dent with this guy, walk away. Then today he says to me privately, "You know, that's what I was always taught, but what you're saying, it's very interesting. It makes so much more sense. You know, my grandmother was Jewish from Germany." Well, I'll be!
I can't believe you guys ate all that food! You were really brave, trying new stuff. I never dreamed it would go over that well.
Leave your flowers at my door;
I leave them for
The one who waits behind.
Goodbye. Goodbye.
Hi Grace... Catchin up on the Blog and as I was reading I have one question for you... Are you saying that you do not believe in a literal 6 day creation? to be specific 6 each of 24 hour days.
Stu
June 25, 2007
Rabbi,
I letting Marsha use my e-mail address because she is still learning how to use e-mail and blogging. It is still a little difficult for her.
The following is her comments:
"Rabbi,
I did all of the the readings for June 23 and 30 part of July 14, 2007.
One thing that stays in my mind is the emphasis on Halakha. They say it is Jewish identity. It covers a person's eating habits, sex life, business ethics, social activities, entertainment, artistic values and the spiritual guidlines of Judaism.
I don't see Halakha practiced anywhere. Yesterday (Saturday), someone went through my wallet. This happened either at the Synagogue, on the bus or at Starbucks. That person stole all of my shopping receipts, credit card receipts and eyglass prescription.
Then, some lady kept breaking into our apartment. Then, Richard's sister said that she does not feel comfortable seeing him with the Rabbi present.
If you don't have street smarts you can't survive in our neighborhood. As I said I am diesappointed."
Marsha Hoffman
June 25, 2007
Shalom Stuart,
I do not believe that there is enough room on this blog for my 1000 questions and/or comments.
1. I am amazaed that Wylens different definitions of Who is Jew permits anyone with a Jewish backgound to be considered Jewsih except for any Jewish person who accepts Yeshua as the Messiah and falls into any of his definitions/categories of being Jewisn. (p. 3 SOS) He woud exluded from the Jewish community the members of AZS and our Torah observant associates in the UMJC?
Is his opinion shared by the mainstream Jewish community?
If so, why?
Why is Wylin and the mainstrean Jewish community give us disparate treatment?
Now it's time for silly songs with Rabbi Stuart. The part of the show where Rabbi Stuart comes out and sings a silly song. Our curtain opens as Rabbi Stuart, having just finished his morning prayers, is searching for his car keys. Having no success, he cries out...
Oh, where are my car keys?
Oh, where are my car keys?
Oh, where, oh, where, oh, where, oh, where,
Oh, where, oh, where, oh, where, oh, where,
Oh, where ... are my car keys?
Hey Stu (the other Stuart!), yessiree, you are right. I do not believe in a literal six 24 hour day creation. I certainly do believe G-d created. The whole point of Genesis 1 is that G-d created. The format of the chapter is for easy oral rendition, probably as a song easily taught to children, with verses and a repeated chorus (and it was good, and there was evening and morning, the X day). It goes through every single thing that the pagans around them worshipped, the heavens, the earth, the sun, the moon, etc.... and basically says, hey, those things are great. But they are creation. They are not creator. G-d created.
I don't think Genesis 1 is meant to give us the scientific and historical details of HOW G-d created. I think G-d gave us curious and intelligent minds that are just now beginning to scratch the surface of understanding some of what happened. The Big Bang describing in scientific terms something coming from nothing. I'm a nut for studying plate tectonics, which I fell in love with in third grade, so believing in a young earth is like asking me to believe in a flat earth. If we have been formed from the dust of the earth, the process ol evolution simply describes the many many many steps in between. I do not think that evolution is random. Sure there is natural selection; but natural selection alone cannot possibly explain things as they are. G-d is a G-d whose hand is at work in his creation, at the beginning, and throughout history. He's quite the meddler. This form of evolutionary theory is known as Theistic Evolution.
How about you? What is your take?
Richard:
Some Jews I know do not believe you are Jewish anymore if you believe in Yeshua. A friend who is one of the Mizrahim is more generous -- you'd still be a Jew, but you are an idolater. In fact this issue of mixing Yeshua with Judaism puts him in conniption fits -- he was only disappointed when I returned to the church; he is furious that I am hanging with Messianics. It's right up there with the Holocaust and Muslim terrorists.
Consider that for the past, what?, 1700 or so years, that to become Christian meant to leave the Jewish community, to stop living as a Jew. How were they supposed to feel? I attended one of Rabbi Stuart's lectures, and I still vividly remember him saying, "Fine, don't let the door hit you on your way out." Christian conversions depleted the Jewish community and destroyed families -- it was a threat. Does this make the attitudes a little more understandable?
It's a hard one for me too, Richard. Tell me what Orthodox rabbi would convert me? What conservative rabbi? What reform rabbi even? It can be a real bummer, caught between a rock and a hard place. As Shakespeare wrote, Life is a tale told by an idiot. I guess we gotta laugh . :)
A Catholic priest, a Protestant minister, and a rabbi are discussing what they would like people to say after they die and their bodies are on display in open caskets.
Priest: I would like someone to say "He was a righteous man, an honest man, and very generous."
Minister: I would like someone to say "He was very kind and fair, and he was very good to his parishioners."
Rabbi: I would want someone to say "Look, he's moving."
Shalom, my family
&4yie9guJune 26, 2007
Shalom Stuart,
This Richard.
1. Wylin on p. 40 of SOS asserts that One could deny Godand still be a Jew, but to deny the unity of God would be to remove oneself from the Jewish fold." If a Jewish person denies God, how could she/he acknowledge God's unit? Does the mainstream Jewish community accept Wylin's assertion?
According to the Kabbalah, God's Tifferet and Shekhinah separated when the temple was destroyed in 70 CE. The Shekinah went into exile with the Jewish people. When the exile ends the Shekinah and the Tifferet will be reunited and the cosmos will be healed.
According to Wylin, Jewish mystics are not in the Jewish fold because they beleive that God's unit was severed in 70 CE.
Does the mainstream Jewish community accept
Grace, have you read "The Case For The Creator" by Lee Strobel? He interviews scientists, archeologists, etc. whose research prove among other things that we aren't descended from monkeys and that natural selection creates subtle changes in a species but it does not create the prototype of a species.
Hello Grace.
I do believe in a literal 6 days, 24 hours each. This is my opinion, and contrary to popular belief, I was not there at the actual time of creation, writing my notes.... I just look that old. I would be happy to discuss this with you, but this blog is not the place for it, in my opinion unless Rabbi wishes me to continue.
Second item.
Back in your earlier comments you talked about Gentiles being put to death if they observed Shabbat, and you further commented that "they should not rest" and you referenced Bereishis 8:22, where is says "they shall not take rest, or they shall not rest." for some reason you apparently assumed the THEY meant people, which is not correct. The They refers to the times and seasons . " Seedtime, Harvest, cold, heat, summer and winter" The context of this was dealing with the flood. I am sure you know this which is why I was surprised you used this passage in talking about gentiles not resting.
your words..
"The "it is written" refers to Bereishit/Gen 8:22, "From now, all the days of the world, sowing and harvesting, cold and heat, summer and winter; Day and night they shall not rest ". They, meaning all mankind. Resh Lakish is arguing that only Jews got a break from being part of "they" when God gave them the Sabbath."
All mankind is correct, in as far that includes ALL items involved with the earth, however people are not directly mentioned in this passage. But the comments are that the flood, and in some peoples opinion the stopping of evening and morning, which some commentators believe happened during the flood, hence the word to describe "Continuously, never ending and is not dealing in any way with Shabbat.. but I digress.
The Rambam clearly stated that
21 and 22 shows G-d's promise to never cover the earth with water again, which, when it happened did prevent those items listed above.
But this is a pretty far reach away from the original comment about Gentiles resting on Shabbat..
L'hit
Stu
Hello everyone!
I just wanted to share a couple of the quotes from our reading that I especially liked and ask if anyone knows the answer to a question I have.
The first quote is from Donin's Introduction (page 4).
"The Jew is today desperately needed as a Jew by the Jewish people. And I daresay that it is only as a Jew, consciously reflecting the values and ways of authentic Jewish life, that he is also desperately needed by the world. Since the dangers confronting the Jewish people in their struggle to assure physical and spiritual survival must not be underestimated, it is essential that more of Jewish intellect, energy, skill, and sacrificial idealism be redirected toward the strengthening of what is authentically Jewish."
The second quote is from Wolfsen (page 86). "One of our vivid recollections is of our daughter Havi at one year of age. One weekday night we went to a local pizza restaurant. It was intentionally dark, and on the tables were patio candles. Havi reacted immediately. She began to circle her hands, in imitation of her mother's weekly ritual, and bless this candle....We were told stories of children whose natural reaction to birthday candles was the berakhah lehadlik ner and of a three-year-old who regularly stops at the dining room table, picks up a candlestick left there, and sings Bim Bam to it."
I think what Donin says here is great because I think it expresses what we need to do and be as MJers, too. And I long for the day when MJ children will be engaging in Jewish behaviors at that young of an age. May it come speedily in our days!
My question is about candles. I would like to know what the Jewish perspective is on using candles other days of the week. Is weekday candle use avoided so as not to diminish the joy of candles on Shabbat?
I agree with Stuart S. that we probably shouldn't be having a creation/evolution debate on the blog. However, if anyone wants to know what I think as an anthropologist, I would be more than happy to tell you if you ask me during our oneg time or after class!
Hi Everyone,
Thanks for all your input. Here are some of my reflections!
First, for Marsha - JEWISH PEOPLE AND SALVATION and THE TALMUD
Your question about Jewish people believing in salvation of any kind, the answer is of course, “Yes.” It helps to remember that “salvation” is another word for “rescue” or “deliverance.” Every Passover, for example, we remind ourselves of God’s deliverance, his salvation. And what about Chanukkah and what about Purim--in those cases as well, we are reminded of God’s salvation!!
As for “soul salvation” in the Baptist sense, well, Jews don’t tend to think that way. They think rather of being part of that covenant people to whom God has made convenant promises of deliverance--that the God who has rescued us in the past, will rescue us in the future, and in the present. He is faithful to his promises: our job is to live faithful to him.
As for what books constitute the Talmud, there are nineteen huge volumes, and you will learn more about them and about the differences between the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds as we go along. For now, let it suffice to say that the Babylonian Talmud records debates and discussion that took place among the Jews Babylon, and . . . you guessed it, the Jerusalem Talmud records debates and discussion that took place among Jews in the land of Israel. The Babylonian Talmud more directly shapes Jewish life as we now know it.
And Marsha, as for halakha and your disappointment about being ripped off with someone stealing your receipts, well, I am sorry for that. But that only demonstrates why we need to be guided by halakha. By your argument we should throw out the Bible too, because so few people practice it! No, we cannot do that. We are all accountable to God, and halakha gives us guidance on how to live rightly before Him and to live rightly with one another. Your experience only goes to prove how much we need halakha.
Kathleen - WHAT ABOUT THE ORAL TORAH?
As for Kathleen’s question about Moses receiving Oral Torah at Mt. Sinai, I think the answer is “Yes” and “No.” First the “No.” I think it is a pious fiction that Moses received at Sinai all future Jewish discussion of halakha. Perhaps that contention is just a strong way of saying that all future Jewish communal consensus decisions are due to the Spirit of God working in the community, bringing out in communal discussion the intention of the laws given at Sinai. But then, I would also say, “Yes,” at least in part. It is not irrational to assume that in forty days atop the Mount, Moses discussed with Hashem--“How are we supposed to do this?” That seems very rational to me. Or are we to believe that all that happened was that he received the tablets with the Ten Words written with the very finger of God--that would be great enough in itself!!--but must we believe that was all? Again, doesn’t it seem rational that Moses would ask Hashem, “How does this work?” and that Hashem might have given some input?
Richard - WHY DOES WYLEN DISCOUNT JEWISH BELIEVERS IN JESUS?
Of course Wylen is saying that Jews of all kinds can be called Jews except for Yeshua believers. He is doing that because he fears seeing Jews assimilated into the Church, intermarrying, and the Jewish community disappearing like an iceberg in tropical waters. Can you blame him? I don’t. He is afraid. Just for the record, the general halachic opinion is that a Jew who believes in Jesus loses all the privileges of being a Jew, and cannot even be buried in a Jewish cemetery--but he/she retains all of the obligations. He or she is still a Jew in a sense, but a Jew who has departed from their faith and needs to repent. Such a Jew would not need to convert to be received back into the Jewish community with full privileges.
And Richard, you must admit that during most of your life, Jews who believe in Jesus have become assimilated, joined churches, intermarried, and abandoned Jewish life. The Dispensationalism you were raised with taught that the Mosaic Law is defunct. It is customary for Jewish believers to say, “We never left the Jewish community: they threw us out!” But this is not true. When people stop living as Jews, when they embrace a theological conviction that declares the Jewish way of life expired, when they more often than not intermarry, when they raise their children in churches, in what sense are they still Jews? Being Jewish is more than genetics, Richard. It is communal. To the extent that we abandon and/or replace the Jewish community, we are abandoning our identity as Jews, and the Jewish community is entirely right to stigmatize such behavior. They are not wrong.
However, on the matter of the status of Jews who believe in Yeshua, opinions vary, and we are living in a new day. The phenomenon of Jews who believe in Yeshua who continue living Jewish lives, even living by Oral Torah, has not occurred before in the Jewish world. I know of one prominent Jewish leader who suggests there may well be wiggle room in Jewish halacha for us to be accepted not as heretics rather than as apostates. This sounds like a joke, but it isn’t. If the Jewish community considers us heretics, they are saying we are members of the family with deviant views. If they say we are apostates, they are saying we are outside of the family.
Grace gave some wise counsel on this as well (good job, Grace). But one more thing.
Not many years ago a demographic study was done in Philadelphia on the grandchildren of intermarriages. They discovered that out of all the grandchildren they found, NOT ONE was living and identifying as a Jew. So you can see that there is a real reason for Jewish paranoia.
More later.
Stuart Simpson, Grace and THE SIX DAY CREATION
Ladies and gentlemen! This is, in my view, a fruitless discussion. I will talk more about this when I see you, if you wish, but for now just think of this. Do you think the Torah account of creation was given to provide a scientific description of the time span of God’s creative acts? It is like thinking that the record of Noah and the ark is a description of how to build a big boat, or the story of the building of the Mishkan and of the Temple, provided as blue prints for us to build a tent or a Temple. NO. The Creation story is part of the back-story of the Torah, setting the scene for all that follows. More later. But let’s not get into this--let’s leave it to fundamentalist Christians. We need to stick to discussions that relate especially to Messianic Jewish living, our readings, and Bar/Bat Mitzvah matters. And let’s not haggle. Like the Bible says, “Let all be fully convinced in their own minds” (Rom 14:15, NRSV).
Debbie and DONIN ON THE NEED FOR JEWS TO LIVE AS JEWS
Debbie, dear. You quoted this: “ "The Jew is today desperately needed as a Jew by the Jewish people. And I daresay that it is only as a Jew, consciously reflecting the values and ways of authentic Jewish life, that he is also desperately needed by the world. Since the dangers confronting the Jewish people in their struggle to assure physical and spiritual survival must not be underestimated, it is essential that more of Jewish intellect, energy, skill, and sacrificial idealism be redirected toward the strengthening of what is authentically Jewish."
I think this is a wise quotation. I would amplify it this way. If God called the Jewish people into being and gave us His Torah as a way of life, is it not logical to believe that something precious is lost when his Chosen People do not choose to walk in his ways? Of course! And it is so narcissistic to think only in terms of what we individual Jews lose, because many secularized Jews would say, “I can deal with it!” The fact is, we were not created for our sake alone, and Torah was not given us for our sake alone, but we were created and Torah was given that we might glorify God and be a blessing in the midst of the earth.
Great quote.
Your quote from Wolfson is on the mark as well: If we raise our chidren in the midst of Jewish life, Jewish living will become reflexive for them. It is not, was not, and will never be enough to raise children with explanations. They must be raised with experiences. Robert Wuthnow, perhaps America’s premier sociologist of religion, puts it this way:
“The fact that embedded practices figure so importantly in recollections of religious upbringing challenges much of what has been written about the theological socialization of children over the past half century. Influenced by the legacy of catechetical instruction, scholars have continued to assume that children are first and foremost mental machines. Incessantly curious, children presumably start asking questions about the nature of the universe at an early age, and if they are supplied with simple answers at the right moment, they will progress through various stages of cognitive development until they achieve the sophistication of an adult understanding of faith.
“We found little evidence to support this view among the people we interviewed. Few of them remembered being especially curious about metaphysical questions as children and few of them recalled significant teachings that provided answers to these questions. They assimilated religion more by osmosis than instruction. The act of praying was more important than the content of their petitions. Being in Sunday school was more memorable than anything they may have been taught. Fried chicken or seders or statues of Mary provided the texture of their spiritual understanding.
“The implication of these memories for religious education is not to abandon catechetical instruction or other methods of passing on the content of religious traditions. Such content was important, even if people did not remember or understand it very clearly, because it provided the rationale for everything else that was more immediately memorable. They came to believe that somewhere there were answers to the questions they someday might want to ask and that in the meantime it was possible to live as if those answers might matter.
“But spirituality also came to be understood as a way of life, and it did so because people grew up living it. The parents, teachers, and clergy who understood this best were the ones who created an environment in which spirituality was fully and deeply embedded. They honored of the spirituality of chicken dinners, of gefilte fish, of family Bibles, and of stained glass windows” (xxxv-xxxvii).
And indeed, may it come speedily and in our days!
And by the way:
THE READINGS FOR THIS WEEK ARE AS FOLLOWS:
SOS – Chapter 3-4 (God; Israel); Wolfson - Chapter 3-4; Donin - Chapter 1
Be careful out there!
It is interesting to note the comments that are made by Wylen about redemption. Whether he actually believes what he is writing or simply passing on knowledge, the comment made that " Ultimately, G-d will redeem the entire world." Seems to paint with such a broad brush, that the need for any savior or messiah no longer exists. As he further points out, "The world begins with Creation and ends with Redemption."
Stu
We need to remember that Judaism speaks differently of salvation than do most Christians, but that there is an underlying commonality. The NT writers also believe that God will redeem the whole world in the sense that God is working toward a consummation in which there will be a (renewed) heavens and a (renewed) earth in which righteousness dwells. Paul speaks of God summing up ALL things in Christ. This is an entirely separate issue from the winnowing out of sheep and goats, of saints and sinners. Judaisn is not asking, and thus not answering the question: "Will everyone be saved?" in the evangelical sense.
Since this is not a question Judaism is asking, we ought not to get upset by statements Judaism makes about salvation which are grounded in different questions--the fact of eventual tikkun olam.
More later.
June 28, 2007
Hi Rabbi,
This is Marsha.
I notice that the books tell a lot about the Jewish people believing in one God and one God only. How does this theology fit in with Messianic Judaism's belief Ha Shem, Yeshua and the Holy Spirit?
I notice from reading that the Jewish people honor the seventh day as a day of rest. Why do Christians honor Sunday, the first day of the week, for their day of rest?
Shalom! Y'all!
My my has everyone been so busy...gulp!
As pioneers in the 2nd generation of American MJ, we have so much to cram for. Thank goodness we have a patient professor and Rabbi who is willing to teach us, answer our questions, and who challenges us to ask them.
My 3 questions for this week:
IF genealogy is supposed to be through the Mother, why then is Yeshua's family history told for both parents? Because IF it is only through the mother, why is it not listed as Shlomo ben Bathsheba? rather than Shlomo ben David?
IF GOD wanted us to have only one parent to count why would He give us two?, The Commandment in the Garden, as well as the Floating Ark was founded on both species, whether of man or animal!
If God created the world with Hebrew and the Torah and it is the Holy Tongue, why is the Kadesh in Aramaic? Or is there a version in Hebrew?
Would I be able to interview each of the members of our Class for their own story in connecting back with God? to their journey of this Bar/Bat Mitzvah class?
In reading The Shabbat I am touched of all the families that began with one thing, 'lighting candles' and celebrating Erev Shabbat/Shabbat together, learning the prayers and adapting something uniquely theirs in 'making tshevah [return]". Some were involved in synagogues, attended religiously; and some were not but because of their children got involved in shul or religious living as Jews. And coming together for this Shabbat was the turning point of the biggest change in their family life.
For years, way back, 1977,when Stu and I came to God, and opened our Bibles for the first time as a married couple and when the verse of Jeremiah 31:30-39 first plucked the strings of my heart, verse 32:
became my song. "I WILL PLACE MY TORAH WITHIN THEM AND I WILL WRITE IT UPON THEIR HEART; I WILL BE A GOD TO THEM AND THEY WILL BE A PEOPLE TO ME." The Bible that I used in those days, when I would come across verses that would cause me questions and I would ASK, to be told, "That was under the Law, we are under Grace". I stopped asking questions, and instead began drawing The Star of David, over verses that were a condumdrum and instead whispered prayers to God for His response and teaching me because even in the 'answers' I was getting, I knew as an adult believer, that God's WORD was the first and final word,IF HE SAID, that was enough for me, and I asked Him to simply answer my questions in His Time!
Whenever I heard Hebrew I would weep, all mysterious and a wonder to me. Something deep within me was stirring, and I could not place it or ask questions that the given answers would resonate with my spirit.
My knowledge would grow, but my faith was there reaching for His Hand, and would stay intact regardless of situations, circumstances, and people's failures as well as their gifts and blessings, love and time poured into our lives.
I am having difficulty in asking questions, not because I know everything [no way, not even] but rather in the books I am reading I am simply observing. If I do not agree with statements from that author, I realize they have had a different background and are Jewish but not in the setting of which we are in.
It is still a hard thing for me to comprehend life without spirituality or belief in God, or being with others who do not love Him or acknowledge Him as Creator.
I realize that there are Jewish peoples who have been deeply hurt, maligned, mocked, run out of town and somewhere the seeds of bitterness, resentment took root, making some turn aside, temporarily, until they could allow themselves to be found, if only beginning to have a family meal together once a week. And being content with only that for now.
In my own family, having been run out of France as Jews, to escape to Canada and to begin a new life, somewhere a grandparent made a choice that would make the difference if we would be blessed or cursed, life or death.
Apart from being stoned [rocks thrown at me/us not by drugs] on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem by Palestinian children/boys in 1998, the only anti-semitism I have directly experienced was within my own family distant relations who shut me down in my quest for Jewish family records. Ah, "this is where the family divided" so once again I am waiting for Hashem's answers.
So for me to read about other Jewish families who are not religious chosing to make a decision to start with Erev Shabbat, it touches me and I am silent! They are coming up through mostly secular Jewish culture, leaving out for the time being any religious ties, and would most likely be very insulted IF their Jewishness was questioned. They are still Jewish whether they believe in God or not!
We, as MJ, have come round this bend from the other direction, Jews who went in a form of hiding, stayed religious although not in ways of past family members, and have arrived at MJ. There is so much to learn from the ones who did not waiver in following God, or His Torah all these centuries. I marvel at their faith, strength, and way of life!
I also admire the ones who dared to take a stand and break off from the church and observe the Torah observant lifestyle, celebrating the Feasts/Festivals as Jews. I am in awe that we are here, with you all. Studying for our Bar & Bat Mitzvahs.
I also realize in MJ we have a joy and freshness. We are really caught at times in the middle. Often not understood by the church nor understood by the Jews, whether religious or secular.
They look at us, questioningly, warily, and with the church [es]' history I can totally understand their hesitancy to accept us. We have found for the most part, when we ask questions that show a respect and desire to learn rather than a curiousity or fishbowl observance,or worse, so we can spout back our 'knowledge'; their willingness to teach. Once asked, I believe we need to go back home and live it.
I think perhaps one of several lessons we need to learn, is from Yeshua who in healing one man, told him to not tell anyone but rather go home and live a renewed and healthy [heal-thy] life quietly. He did this at least twice to two different men.
Obedience is desired rather than lip service.
Marte: Thank you so much for your beautiful post.
Thanks Marte indeed. Wow, an interview...how fun.
I would certainly advocate a unique post per shabbat session to differentiate these comments a bit.
In SOS, is it really possible that Jews buy the good deeds vs. bad deeds scale that gets measured at the end of our life? This seems like it would lead only to depression with the backdrop of the Jewish understanding of God's perfection, holiness, and glory.
I look forward to seeing you all soon.
I'm having the hardest time coming up with questions this week. It's not that I don't have them. It's that they just aren't the sort that can be answered. A lot of the material is stuff I've gone through before, but need to rethink. I bounce it off other things I know, things in history, things in the Church, things in society, things in my private life. I ask questions like, What is the significance of this? What does it mean? Where is this going? My son says I'm a terrible student because I stare at the wall more than I actually read. Here are three questions so that I'll at least get a D rather than an F for the week:
1. Why do I talk so much?
2. Why did God make avocado pits so big?
3. Why can't the Reformed and Conservatives and Orthodox and all have some kind of Big Pow Wow and try to work out their differences in Halakhah?
I didn't know the Romans ever sent Jews into the colosseum -- that was new to me, and deeply distressing. I always thought it was legal to be Jewish in the Roman empire. Apparently not always. Anyone know more about this?
Marte, your post was SO touching! I'm so glad you shared. You wanted to know if we would also share. I'll try to put it into words. As you know, I'm not Jewish. But bits and pieces of things throughout my life have been like a bell ringing to bring me here, small chimes at first, then ringing larger and larger. I certainly can't tell them all -- it would be a book. But here are the highlights.
I was born into a Christian family that had some very odd ways. We never had pork or shellfish, had very strict modesty standards, and we kept sabbath very strictly, and no we were not seventh day adventists. In Seminary my parents hung out with other similar pious christians, but truth be told, there really weren't any others that were semi-kosher like they were. While they always gave Biblical reasons for it (of course!) I now suspect it had a lot to do with the influence coming down over the generations from my great-great grandmother, who was Jewish. You might think its crazy, but its managed to be passed down two more generations -- my daughter is staying with her cousins who still keep these family traditions.
Our family only ever had one guest that my parents went nuts to prepare, and that was a Jew who was visiting from Israel. I must have been around six. He came and spoke at our church and then came to our home afterwards and they stayed up and talked late into the night. I was SUPPOSED to be in bed, but I couldn't help it! I remember wearing my flannel pajamas with the blue flowers, standing at the hall door, which had slats so that you could hear without being seen. I understood very little, but it was something about a six day war, and it being a MIRACLE like out of the Bible. And I vividly remember his face, his beard, and his soft brown eyes. I thought to myself, "He looks just like Jesus, except that he wears a suit."
When I was 16, I asked my father to take me around to different Christian churches, since I knew I was pretty sheltered, and wanted a broader exposure to the larger Christian world. AND I asked to attend a synagogue. "What does going to a synagogue have to do with learning about Christianity," asked my father. "It just does." It's not that I don't have a good brain, but I've found my intuition is always three steps ahead of my rational mind.
That same year, coming home on the bus from a choir festival, a bunch of the born-agains were talking to one of the Jewish girls in the choir. Talking is putting it nicely. They meant well. But, well, there were like eight of them and one of her, and when one person is surrounded by that many people.... ick... how do YOU think she felt? It made me feel confused, because I'm very empathic, and I was picking up on her distress, while at the same time agreeing with their remarks. I had been taught to do what they were doing, but there was just a wrongness about it that I couldn't put my finger on. They finally left her alone and apologized for upsetting her when she started to cry. It haunted me for years; I even tried to look her up to apologize for not coming to her defense.
We gotta skip through a lot of stuff, and I mean a lot, Judaism was a constant thought in the back of my mind, but it was low-grade, like a steady drip. For example, when I decided to name my daughter after the mother of our Lord, I chose Miryam, because after all, she was Jewish. But fast forward to the birth of Isaac and discovering computer nets, and being able to talk to Jews all over the place.
I'm not sure exactly what triggered the dreams. Maybe it was moving to the upstairs room. Maybe it was suddenly making so many Jewish friends on the net. But I started having a recurring nightmare. In the nightmare I was in an upstairs room. It was sort of superimposed over the upstairs room where I lived -- the settings would flip back and forth between now and then. And in the dream I am Jewish. The first thing I hear is the dogs. And I know they are coming. And I know I won't survive, and that it won't be easy. I'm very very scared. They are down below. The shattering glass. The banging. The dogs. I take out a Bible. It flips back and forth: sometimes my Bible, sometimes a different kind of Bible, my bed to table with a lamp... see what I"m saying? But I'm shaking, and I can't focus on reading, and I set my glasses down on the table, and close my eyes, trying to think of a prayer to pray. And I hear them on stairs, the footsteps. Sometimes this is when I wake up. And then the heavy banging on the door. Sometimes this is when I wake up. The door is broken in. Sometimes this is when I wake up. Yes sometimes it goes on. I don't want to look at them. I don't want to see. I try to pretend I'm someplace else. The only way to get away is to be someplace else. To wake up.
If I woke up and fell back asleep, I would return to the same dream. I would have to get up and walk and walk and walk. Sometimes I'd cry. Having this dream changed something about me. If you want to think I'm nuts, that's okay. Something woke up.
It was right around this time that I got the bright idea to learn enough Hebrew to read Scripture. I became very heavily involved with Orthodox Jews. I very much miss my old Rabbi. I was going through my divorce at the time, and very depressed. For many different reasons, I had lost my faith in Christ. Now I had a spiritual vacuum. And here were the Orthodox. I began to seek conversion. I asked twice, when the Rabbi moved to Israel. You don't want to know what the next seven years were like, except that they were pretty awful.
When I returned to the Lord in 2000, my assumption was that any conversion to Judaism was out forever since I was Christian. So I did my best to stifle my desires for shabbat etc. The meat thing remained an issue even as an unbeliever, and so I guess that's just part of me. But I became very active in ecumenical activities. You know, for some reason, there just are always Jews in my life.
Last January, I met a messianic Rabbi in a Christian chat room. I was so shocked to find a Jew who believed and actually was Torah observant -- this definitely was NOT J4J!! I wanted to learn MORE about Messianic Judaism. Lent was coming up, and I decided to give up Saturday, no TV, no shopping, spend time in scripture and prayer. And one thing led to another. I thought, why not look up a Messianic Synagogue and attend? That way you get good teaching, you get to learn more about MJ, and maybe do a little penance for the Catholic church in the process by going and supporting them. I had no idea what I was getting myself into.
The very first service was like having my heart ripped open. I was expecting a protestant service with Jewish trimming. But NO! It was like being back at the Orthodox shul. Same Siddur. Many of the same songs. I could even join in the Shema. And what was Rabbi Stuart's message that week? It was on Torah Observance! Oh my goodness! I couldn't have been happier if I had been in a pool of chocolate floating on a giant strawberry.
And what I had put to sleep, woke up again. I think this time, I will stay awake.
Shalom
Hi Jon. Yes that is true in Orthodox and Conseritive followings. I can not speak for the rest but that is the way they feel in NY. all deeds are tallied up at the end and you get what you did. Certanly there are groups that do not feel this way, which is what makes being a Jew so interesting. If you were a "born againg christian" you only had one path, and that path is laid out very clearly. Being a Jew the path is not that clear, which is exciting, at least for me. no rules just study... follow the path..
Stu
Great post Grace Ruth.. I know how you feel.
Hi, everyone.
I just finished reading SOS. i have some questions relating to page 96, last paragraph. Do we know whether Yeshua kept kashrut? Do we know if Yeshua studied as a young man under the Pharisees or the Saddusees? Can we see any influence of their points of view in His teachings? These questions are obviously not about doctrinal points but I was just curious.
Hello all, I hope all is well. I am doing fine here, but unfortunately, "here" happens to be Lexington Kentucky
I am here for work, and sadly will not get back until Monday the 16th. It is my work and I had to go, so I apologize for not being there for the test...I am very saddened, and realize this is my second strike.
I have read the assignments, plus some, and actually have been reading many of the books straight through, and then recapping in the order given to us.
I may not agree with the books, or in many cases even the popular opinion of the group(only going by what little I have been able to observe so far.) But I am happy to say that I am getting a much deeper insight and appreciation for another viewpoint, that is, the viewpoint of the Jewish community at large as well as the Messianic Community at Ahavat Zion. As for now, I will continue to listen, to read, and to learn. I have decided to take a more quiet approach as I do not want to be a fly in the ointment, and I have found that many times if I wait...the answer will be given soon...and it is reasonable, whether I agree or not. So, in some terms I will "leave a lot of question till the end" as it were.
Now, I feel I wish to share that after reading the depth of Kashrut in the Orthodox community, I can imagine how difficult it must be to maintain such a lofty ideal. I have for some years now, kept to eating as "Kosher" as could be understood without the Rabbinical counsel. I was eating mostly vegetarian (that was a secular decision after studying nutrition in college, and some heartfelt cruelty concerns) and if I ate meat it was only that which is considered "clean" biblically. I was careful about byproducts of "unclean" foods, and have been very strict in this after much prayer and investigation. Right or wrong, I was planning on keeping the laws regarding this, to the best of my knowledge.
This type of promise did not have the Halakah, so by reading it, and talking to what I now know as more secular Jewish writers. I would have had no problems with eating chicken with cheese, or even a hamburger. But at a very young age felt nauseous when looking at an omelet that was made with pieces chicken in it. It was like life and death on the same plate, it felt rude and it sparked a place in my heart then, and again when I read Exodus 23:19.
After reading more about the Halakah, and the strict adherence, I am thinking about it much more deeply. When I travel for my business, I end up in towns where I can nearly find ANY vegetarian dishes, and usually end up eating fish. (much like where I am) and even then I have to be careful…as they like to add things…(there is shrimp and bacon in my breading) And it would be nearly impossible to keep kosher.
I feel odd…I know the grills they use are now made “trefah” if anything I know they had milk and meat and milk on them, let alone unclean meats. The people in a lot of the towns I am in are wonderful people, however, they get frustrated and annoyed when I kindly ask if there are any meat products in the bread, or the salad. I can see why a community would want to settle in an area that they can live within their agreed laws. Sabbath is hard enough, but to add Kashrut (!)
I have also noticed strange looks from people here and even in the airport, when I pray for a meal, and when I bless it. I try to stay very quiet, but I am praying aloud, softly, in Hebrew when I can. I am not certain if I would even want to let myself be heard, not to shake up the community that I am a guest of, that of middle America, or to incite that hive.
OK..I feel I need to throw a question in here.
If even in my mind, I am thinking about whether or not a pot was used for milk, or bacon was on that grill. How is it possible that there is a K on my Jell-O? I mean, if it is so strict that a porous vessel must be destroyed, and we know that Jell-O uses ALL kinds of animals, I can imagine a Rabbi saying…it is LESS of a sin, but not a Rabbi giving it a seal. And of course, what is the view of the MJ community?
July 19, 2007
Shalom Rabbi,
This is Richard.
You did not post the assigned reading for July 28, 2007 on the Mitzvaholics blog site.
What are the assigned readings for July 28, 2007?richared
What are the assigned readings for July 28, 2007?
July 19, 2007
Shalom Rabbi,
This is Richard. I am here.
You did not post the reading assignments for July 28, 2007 on the blog.
What are the reading assignments for July 28, 2007?
Shalom Rabbi,
This Richard Hoffman. I am here.
You did not post the reading assignments for July 28, 2007, on the mitzvaholics blog.
What are the reading assignments for July 28,2007?
Dierdre
I do read the blog often but try to comment little. I feel the need to comment about your question and the answer given by Grace Ruth, bless her heart.
Her comments about power are completely inappropriate here in this area. It has nothing to do with power or any such thing. The answer given by Debbie is quite correct. The reason for the separation is that women, being so lovely to look at and sweet in nature can and at times does take a man’s attention at a time where he needs to pay full attention to the discussion going on at Shul. Again it has NOTHING to do with power, and I am really bothered by that comment, but that is another story.
If you have ever been to a Orthodox service, you would see that the women have a very good time on "the other side" and in fact have a very close tie with Ha Shem during service. The truth about women not allowed or encouraged to study is because the teaching is that women, by design, are far more spiritual then men, if you doubt that just ask my wife. The study here is very long and in depth, but the answer is clear, women are by nature closer to Ha Shem then men will ever be, and the study of Torah "might" cause a confusion of the Nefish that would otherwise be clear in nature. The study of Torah etc, is a scholarly study, a reading of words and translation that men need to do. Women, on the other hand simply look up and see the face of the father and talk to him directly, a gift most men do not have.
Stu
Thank you, Stuart S., for your blog. It has been my experience in my 57 years of life that women are indeed more spiritually attuned but I would never have had the guts to write that on this blog. Thank you again for saying everything you did and where do we find more men like you.
I have read the current comments listed on the blog, but it ends with Kathleen on July 31, 07. So are there more that I do not have?
I have been distracted lately with a situation regarding our company and families and I beg our Teacher/Rabbi's and class' forgiveness? For not keeping up with the work, assignments and blog. We are also going to have to beg off for the Erev Shabbat Meal on August 24th and ask that the rest of you make the proper arrangements, meal preparations, and decisions. Stu and I will be out of town for that weekend and apologize for not being able to attend. And keep up the good work!
I may just have to shut out the world, and read everything in one sitting to catch up. Whew! Thoroughly blessed by the way by Rabbi Dauermann this weekend.
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